appoo
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 15499
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Everett Golson Highlites
These are the highlites of a 10th grade QB in South Carolina. In his freshman year he beat out a very good returning senior...I post this not because I think he'll end up at PSU, but because he's probably the best looking Dual-Threat QB prospect coming out HS since Mike Vick, who had similar tapes. It's crazy how good he is right now, in 10th grade. He'd be a class of 2011 target
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camelspider
Athletic Director
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 4104
Loc: New Mexico
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Nebraska pulls scholarship offer from a West Scranton player.
Quote:
At that time of his verbal commitment in the spring, Bodtmann, who was recruited as an outside linebacker, also had offers from Connecticut, Syracuse and Army, but had ended the recruiting process, according to DeAntona.
Bodtmann took an official visit to Nebraska just after his regular season at West Scranton concluded in early November.
DeAntona indicated that Nebraska linebackers coach Mike Eckler on behalf of the staff notified him two weeks ago that there was concern that Bodtmann, who was down from 205 pounds to 195, had lost weight and that he had injuries during his senior season.
Eckler also indicated that Bodtmann had been caught in a numbers crunch and that there were some walk-ons who impressed the staff enough to warrant scholarship offers after the season.
DeAntona did say that Nebraska made some modest attempts to help Bodtmann land somewhere else, and that a greyshirt, where he could accept a scholarship in January, had been offered after the original offer had been pulled.
Bodtmann is listed as a three-star FB (#8 FB in the nation), and might be a nice fall-back if Jenkins doesn't come to us.
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I don't view it as a bad thing - Doug Archie, tO$U Associate Athletic Director of Compliance
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appoo
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 15499
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T'eo Manti, right there with JJ as the best backer in America just picked Notre Dame over USC. Stunning is the word I'd use to describe this. A Mormon from Hawaii in a Catholic school in the middle of Indiana.
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psuro
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/27/03
Posts: 12122
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I thought he was going to do his mission first, and then come back to Notre Dame. As a 20 year old freshman.
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls....and tenement halls".
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PennState03Chris
Running Back By Committee
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 3285
Loc: Princeton, NJ
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They do love their 20 year old freshmen, don't they? At least they're not 28 year old seniors like the two A&M 'backers we played against in the Alamo Bowl.
ESPN.com said that Teo will play his freshman year, then head off on a two-year mission. I hope he turns pro after his mission and doesn't return to ND. That would rock...
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HAIL! to the Lion, loyal and true.
HAIL! Alma Mater, with your white and blue
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psuro
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/27/03
Posts: 12122
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Link
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls....and tenement halls".
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psuro
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/27/03
Posts: 12122
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ever in HS competition. Not just this year - EVER. This, from a BWI poster....
"His 60m time was 6.63, the 3rd fastest HS time ever. For comparison purposes, the 60m at this weekend's NCAA Indoor Championships was won by Jacoby Ford in 6.52. Trindon Holliday was second in 6.55. Smith's time would have tied him for 4th at the NCAA meet. Devon clearly has the potential to be a national champion on the track."
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls....and tenement halls".
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WeDontKnow
Defensive Coordinator
Reged: 09/12/07
Posts: 925
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Suggesting that we should run him on third and short between the tackles?
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appoo
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 15499
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Quote:
Suggesting that we should run him on third and short between the tackles?
Rose Bowl dig? If so, well done.
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PittGradPSUMad
Inside Linebacker
Reged: 11/24/05
Posts: 496
Loc: Harrisburg, PA
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I just saw that Tennessee has signed Bryce Brown, RB, considered to be the top rated player in the land.
Quoted in Volquest.com, Brown "......asked God to reveal it to me," Brown said. "He gave me the sign. When I first went there (on official visit) I wasn't feeling it. I had a lot of concerns about Tennessee and the offense. When I went back, I got the sign. God told me that I was a Volunteer. I just felt it."
So, God told him to become a volunteer. What I want to know is.....WHY would JoePa tell him to do a thing like that???
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All the people we used to know,
They're an illusion to me now
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psuro
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/27/03
Posts: 12122
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Quote:
"......asked God to reveal it to me," Brown said. "He gave me the sign
Sign = $$$$$$$$$$$
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls....and tenement halls".
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Phil
Lion Grand Poohbah
Reged: 07/06/06
Posts: 2011
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Maybe he misunderstood and God was just giving him a sign to do some volunteer work.
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pennst92
Offensive Coordinator
Reged: 03/14/05
Posts: 1283
Loc: columbia, sc
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Quote:
Maybe he misunderstood and God was just giving him a sign to do some volunteer work.
Bravo...simply Bravo... 
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Nittanyfla
Hero
Reged: 11/22/03
Posts: 3825
Loc: Fla. & PA
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Translation, God wants him to go to a school with lower academic standards. After all, this is the SEC.
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PennState03Chris
Running Back By Committee
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 3285
Loc: Princeton, NJ
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A couple of observations:
1) More than any time in recent memory, it appears that PSU is looking beyond PA/NJ/Del/MD for potential recruits. This can only be a good thing.
2) I don't know if this is dictated by the limited schollies that we have to give out, however, we seem to be going after a higher caliber of athlete than we have previously done. The WRs we are offering are typically 6'2" or taller, the DBs seem to be bigger and faster, and the trend seems to continue.
I'm not sure what is different about this recruiting season from others, but I do like the way that it has been going thus far.
Also, FOS had a deal (I'm not sure if it is still going) where you could get three months of service for the cost of one month. With spring ball upon us, I took them up on their offer and have enjoyed what I've seen.
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HAIL! to the Lion, loyal and true.
HAIL! Alma Mater, with your white and blue
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RoarLions
Hall of Famer
Reged: 07/15/04
Posts: 9124
Loc: Selinsgrove, PA
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I think Ro mentioned this in another thread, but the talent level in the PA and DelMarVa region is pretty thin this year. That probably has somehting to do with looking outside the area.
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60% of the time it works every time...
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appoo
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 15499
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Really? I actually think the exact opposite. I think our region is loaded...last year was the down year IMO.
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oldlioness
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/19/03
Posts: 9498
Loc: Huntington Beach, CA
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PSU hosted a group of juniors this weekend. Included were:
Dominique Easley-DE-NY
Kevin Haplea-TE-NJ
Mike Hull-LB-PSU Commit
DaQuan Jones-OL/DL-NY
Alex Kenney-WR-PA
Silas Redd-RB/DB-CN
Dakota Royer-LB/DE-PA
Kenny Wilkins-LB/DE-PA
No new info so far from the visits.
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Pride, Respect, Class. That's what it means to be a Nittany Lion.....MRob
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psuro
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/27/03
Posts: 12122
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I have heard Haplea favors PSU as of now.
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls....and tenement halls".
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PennState03Chris
Running Back By Committee
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 3285
Loc: Princeton, NJ
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Trying to spark a little recruiting chatter here...
All reports indicate that we will have somewhere around 16-17 'ships to give this year.
Paul Jones (5-Star QB) and Mike Hull (4-Star LB) are already committed (although Jones is looking at other schools).
My armchair quarterback analysis would like to see schollis used roughly as I have written below. I'll also list some names that are getting thrown around a lot as prospects at each of these positions and who have genuine interest in Penn State:
2 QB (Paul Jones ~ Mckees Rock, PA and Anthony Gonzalez ~ Bethlehem, PA)
1 RB (Silas Redd ~ Stamford, CT)
3 OL (Seth Betancourt ~ Philadelphia, PA)
3 WR (Kenny Stills ~ La Costa, CA, Alex Kenney ~ State College, PA, Adrian Coxson ~ Baltimore, MD)
3 DL (Dakota Royer ~ Manheim, PA)
2 LB (Mike Hull ~ Cannonsburg, PA, Khairi Fortt ~ Stamford, CT)
3 DB (Brandon Ifill ~ Pittsburgh, PA)
Of those names listed, Paul Jones is a 5-Star, Dakota Royer is a 3-Star, Alex Kenney is not yet rated, and everyone else is a 4-Star. Those aren't the only names being thrown around, rather the ones that I've read about the most and seem to have a genuine interest in Penn State.
My feeling is that Penn State is being much more selective this year about who they are offering, and are also expanding their recruiting efforts, notably in California, but also to a kid like Marcus Lattimore who is a 5-Star running back from South Carolina. Whether we can bring these kids in is a different matter, but at least we are getting the word out and having interest reciprocated.
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HAIL! to the Lion, loyal and true.
HAIL! Alma Mater, with your white and blue
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RhodyLion
Kicker
Reged: 01/24/08
Posts: 187
Loc: Rhode Island
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Chris, I'd like to see all the names you've mentioned. I also think you can expect at least one TE with three graduating this year. Hopefully it is Haplea but I think we have also offered Blake Barker from Cambridge, Mass.
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If I'm only allowed to use words I understand then I have no choice but to be awfully quiet.
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appoo
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 15499
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I'd be delighted with that class. I actually think we have a pretty good chance for Stills. He doesn't think he'll have the grades to get into Stanford (most don't), and it doesn't seem like USC is going to offer him.
I think we'll bring in 2 DBs at most. Don't think we'll get Ifill (Pitt or Michigan) I'd love to land Sean Parker out of SoCal. He's a safety
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psuro
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/27/03
Posts: 12122
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There is a rumor on BWI that Silas Redd will committ to PSU at the Blue White game. Someone said that Redd posted as much on his Facebook page.
Since I don't have Facebook (but thanks, though to those "friended" me), is there anyway someone who is on Facebook could confirm this?
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls....and tenement halls".
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pennst92
Offensive Coordinator
Reged: 03/14/05
Posts: 1283
Loc: columbia, sc
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Lions offered 4* QB Robert Bolden in the wake of Paul Jones' news. FYI. I was under the impression they were going to look for one more QB anyway, but I like that they're being proactive w/ this situation. The Bolden kid looks to be a solid pick up if he commits, and he's got some nice offers on the table including Mich, Mich St and Duke (David Cutliffe former Ole Miss HC and Off Coord for TN - coached both Manning brothers)...
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RoarLions
Hall of Famer
Reged: 07/15/04
Posts: 9124
Loc: Selinsgrove, PA
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I don't see that he has a Facebook page, Ro.
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60% of the time it works every time...
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appoo
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 15499
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He won't goto Michigan since Devin Gardner committed there already
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pennst92
Offensive Coordinator
Reged: 03/14/05
Posts: 1283
Loc: columbia, sc
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Well...he's got a number of other options besides UM, leading me to speculate that the four stars actually mean something.
QB a crucial get for this recruiting season...
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appoo
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 15499
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Wasn't arguing against his talent or rating - just that he won't goto Michigan because they already have their QB. If it's us vs the teams you listed I like out chances.
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psuro
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/27/03
Posts: 12122
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That is what someone on the BWI board said...but who knows, really.
The other thing I heard was that Lattimore (the #1 RB from South Carolina) may be visiting, along with his teammate who is a decent WR and a big PSU fan....but these are all just internet rumors.
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls....and tenement halls".
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appoo
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 15499
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Those were Lattimore's own words. Personally I think he's trying to get his best friend a PSU offer - whom we've been in contact with awhile.
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appoo
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 15499
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Jose Jose, the Vols newest commit...
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Underlion
Split End
Reged: 10/28/03
Posts: 493
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312 lbs and a 2D Cup?
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PSU Florida
Running Back By Committee
Reged: 10/17/03
Posts: 3255
Loc: Pensacola FL
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He's going to take some serious sh*t in the locker room, no matter his weight.
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Fathom the hypocricy of having to prove insurance, but not citizenship.
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psuro
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/27/03
Posts: 12122
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The Forcier Family Album - sort of
Remember the recruitment of Tate Forcier? Well, this is his family album - sort of. And, if you have ever wondered what a written scholarship offer looks like...there are examples included.
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls....and tenement halls".
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Underlion
Split End
Reged: 10/28/03
Posts: 493
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I hope all College QB's don't have Websites. Is the site pushing for his Heisman yet?
I don't think guys in plain vanilla uniforms with no names would have websites like that but I could be wrong.
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psuro
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/27/03
Posts: 12122
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from a Pitt guru.
Quote:
Class of 2010 Pennsylvania Top 50
Rank Name Pos Ht/Wt School Verbal
1 Paul Jones QB 6-3/206/4.90 McKees Rocks (Pa.) Sto-Rox Penn State
2 Sharrif Floyd DT 6-2/304/5.12 Philadelphia (Pa.) George Washington
3 Mike Hull MLB 6-0.5/204 Canonsburg (Pa.) Canon McMillan Penn State
4 Cullen Christian CB 6-1/180/4.55 Pittsburgh (Pa.) Penn Hills
5 Seth Betancourt OT 6-6/290/5.0 Philadelphia (Pa.) St. Josephs Prep Boston College
6 Brandon Ifill WR 6-0/175/4.49 Pittsburgh (Penn Hills)
7 Corey Brown WR 5-11/170/4.45 Springfield (Pa.) Cardinal O'Hara
8 Andrew Carswell TE 6-4/215 McKees Rocks (Pa.) Sto-Rox
9 Aaron Donald DT 6-0/257/5.16 Pittsburgh (Pa.) Penn Hills Pittsburgh
10 Miles Dieffenbach OG 6-4/277/5.40 Pittsburgh (Pa.) Fox Chapel Penn State
11 Tom Ricketts OT 6-6/225 Wexford (Pa) North Allegheny Penn State
12 Dakota Royer OLB 6-3/196 Lancaster (J.P. McCaskey)
13 Manessah Garner WR 6-2/201/4.50 Pittsburgh (Pa.) Brashear
14 Luke Graham OT 6-5/285 Harrison City (Pa.) Penn-Trafford Penn State
15 Kenny Wilkins DE 6-4/230 Washington (Pa) Trinity Michigan
16 Kyle Baublitz DE 6-5.5./240 Central York (Pa.) Penn State
17 Brendon Felder Wr 5-10/180 Monroeville (Pa.) Gateway
18 Kevin Weatherspoon WR 5-11/175.4.48 Clairton (Pa.)
19 Anthony Gonzalez QB 6-2.5/185/4.49 Bethlehem (Pa.) Liberty
20 Sal Conaboy OG 6-5/255 Clarks Summitt (Pa.) Abington
21 Salath Williams WR 6-3/175 Harrisburg (Pa.) Bishop McDevitt
22 Alex Kenney CB/RB 5-11/185/4.35 State College
23 Eric Williams S 6-3/200/4.50 Fairless Hills (Pa.) Pennsbury
24 Tyler Smith QB 6-4/195/4.75 Easton (Pa.) Wilson Area Maryland
25 Jordan Paskorz DE 6-3/225 Pittsburgh (Hampton) Michigan
26 Jarrod West WR 6-2/175/4.5 Bethlehem (Pa.) Liberty
27 Shyquawn Pulliam WR 6-1/170/4.4 Erie (Cathedral Prep)
28 Ibraheim Campbell RB 5-11/185 Philadelphia (Pa.) Chestnut Hill Academy
29 Jack DeBoef OT 6-7/365 State College (Pa.)
30 Chad Hagan RB 6-0/207/4.29 Canonsburg (Pa.) Canon McMillan
31 Ty-Meer Brown QB 6-1/180/4.49 McKeesport (Pa.)
32 K.K. Smith DT 6-2/290/5.0 Turtle Creek (Pa.) Woodland Hills
33 Arthur Doakes OG 6-6/350 Lebanon (Pa.)
34 Sean Hickey OT 6-6/280 Murrysville (Pa.) Franklin Regional
35 Malik Stokes QB 6-0/158/4.60 Philadelphia (Pa.) Northeast
36 Myron Ross RB 6-1/205/4.5 Ambler (Pa.) Wissahickon
37 Dayonne Nunley CB 5-8/160/4.50 Monroeville (Pa.) Gateway
38 Jawon Chisholm RB 6-0/193 Harrisburg (Pa.)
39 Delbert Tyler MLB 6-0/230/4.59 Monroeville (Pa.) Gateway
40 Myles Davis MLB 6-2/225 Pittsburgh (Pa.) Penn Hills
41 Jeff Dobbins MLB 6-0/225/4.60 Pittsburgh (Pa.) Canevin
42 A.J. McGovern C 6-2/270 Plymouth (Pa.) Wyoming Valley Army
43 Deontae Howard RB 5-8/168/4.45 Clairton (Pa.)
44 Tarey Carey DE 6-3/210/4.60 Whitehall Pa.)
45 Mike Huf OLB 6-2/230/4.7 Springfield (Pa.) Cardinal O'Hara
46 Rasheem Jones QB 6-3/185 Aliquippa (Pa.)
47 Shane Gensiak QB 6-4/215/4.85 Archbald (Pa.) Valley View
48 Orne Bey CB 5-8/168/4.42 Monroeville (Pa.) Gateway
49 Jim Giansante WR 6-2/180 Clairton (Pa.) Thomas Jefferson
50 Shane Rugg OG 6-3/265 Johnstown (Pa.) Bishop McCort
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls....and tenement halls".
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camelspider
Athletic Director
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 4104
Loc: New Mexico
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The Sun-Sentinel wrote the article, and here's Doc Saturday's write up about it.
In a nutshell, the reason Miami went from their peak in 2001 to mediocrity under Larry Coker is because coaches weren't evaluating talent based on, you know, hard work or anything like that. No, they were just surfing the recruiting websites like Scout and going after recruits who got five-star ratings from Rivals. No, really:
Quote:
"I used to go in the coaches' offices and sometimes they would literally have Rivals.com up on their screen," said Matt Shodell, who covers UM and its recruiting for CaneSport.com. "I won't name the coaches, but they would be writing names down on pieces of paper. I don't know how much film they were looking at."
The U's recruiting coordinator confirms it:
Quote:
"That's accurate," UM recruiting coordinator Clint Hurtt said. "We spent way too much time recruiting off [Internet] lists and finding these top guys instead of truly evaluating. You can't just go off hearsay or just because Florida, Florida State or Alabama is recruiting him. That doesn't mean a thing."
Next time someone brings up how highly rated our recruits are, keep these articles in mind.
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I don't view it as a bad thing - Doug Archie, tO$U Associate Athletic Director of Compliance
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psuro
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/27/03
Posts: 12122
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and then renegs about 3 hours later....now it seems like his HS coach wants in on the action....
Link
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls....and tenement halls".
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JerseyLion
Left Tackle
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 673
Loc: Copley, OH (formerly Plainsbor...
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http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/8100/big-ten-recruiting-update-purdue-piles-up
6'7", 270 lb. lineman, and PSU isn't even listed as one of the schools extending an offer, let alone one of the finalists? I wonder if there's something PSU knows which the other schools don't?
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PSU Florida
Running Back By Committee
Reged: 10/17/03
Posts: 3255
Loc: Pensacola FL
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I seem to recall reading that he wanted out of the area, and made that known early on in the process. PSU didn't want to waste an offer. Rivals has him as a 3*.
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Fathom the hypocricy of having to prove insurance, but not citizenship.
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RhodyLion
Kicker
Reged: 01/24/08
Posts: 187
Loc: Rhode Island
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Quote:
I seem to recall reading that he wanted out of the area, and made that known early on in the process. PSU didn't want to waste an offer. Rivals has him as a 3*.
So he went to West Lafayette, Ind. He must have wanted to play in a more urban setting.
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If I'm only allowed to use words I understand then I have no choice but to be awfully quiet.
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Nittanyfla
Hero
Reged: 11/22/03
Posts: 3825
Loc: Fla. & PA
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It is very close to Lafayette, which is really nice.
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appoo
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 15499
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So curious, I just got into look at scholarship numbers. As we all now, DI programs are limited to 85 Scholarship players, per year. Now, I think most people would be in agreement that in general, the SEC has better depth in quality than other conferences. While I don't think a school like South Carolina would ever compete for a Big 10 title, I think they wold be top 4 or 5 year in year out. The question is how do SEC schools consistently get such depth, even though they have the same scholarship restrictions we do? The answer? They sign more players.
From 2007 - 2010 these are the number of players signed, by each school.
Team Signed
Alabama Total 110
Arkansas Total 108
Auburn Total 119
Florida Total 93
Georgia Total 85
Kentucky Total 104
LSU Total 105
Mississippi State Total 114
Ole Miss Total 115
South Carolina Total 105
Tennessee Total 96
Vanderbilt Total 77
Team Signed
Illinois Total 94
Indiana Total 84
Iowa Total 86
Michigan Total 93
Michigan State Total 88
Minnesota Total 98
Northwestern Total 74
Ohio State Total 78
Penn State Total 82
Purdue Total 89
Wisconsin Total 87
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At Penn State, once you're offered a scholarship - that scholarship is yours until you either graduate, leave of your own choice, or do something off the field that gets you booted from the team. We also don't offer a scholarship to a kid that wouldn't qualify.
It's essentially the exact opposite in the SEC. They take kids knowing some of them won't qualify, and then drop kids out of a scholarship if they feel there's a kid in HS that would be better. It's brutal and cut throat, but I guess not neccesarily immoral (I wouldn't call it the right thing to do either). But IMO, that's a HUGE factor in why the SEC schools consistently have better depth than the Big 10 schools. They have a greater choice of players, and have more room for error. Missing on a kid or bringing in the wrong kid had a greater impact on big 10 schools.
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Blue&White
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/17/03
Posts: 17448
Loc: Right here
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but I guess not necessarily immoral
Depends on your views on graduation rates, I guess. This is directly reflected in their graduation rates and I feel pretty strongly that the SEC graduation rates are immoral and the NCAA should start sanctioning schools that graduate fewer than 50% of their athletes, and 1/3 of their minority athletes.
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I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!
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PennState03Chris
Running Back By Committee
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 3285
Loc: Princeton, NJ
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Interesting that our "worst" school (Minnesota) would rank 9th "worst" in the SEC.
Houston Nutt was on ESPN's recruiting show yesterday, and he was asked about signing all of these guys and how they make the numbers work. Nutt was very clear that they have great relationships with community colleges and prep schools where they can send these. And if they improve their academics (and athletics), then they bring those kids in.
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HAIL! to the Lion, loyal and true.
HAIL! Alma Mater, with your white and blue
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PSU Florida
Running Back By Committee
Reged: 10/17/03
Posts: 3255
Loc: Pensacola FL
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Just to set the record straight, Penn State adopted the annual review/renewal of scholarships (I know this is true in football, at least) some time ago. I don't know the specific criteria used in the annual evaluation, but based on the facts to date, it doesn't appear that performance ON the field has much weight, compared to 'off-duty' antics and academics. Even more testimony to the quality of recruit we bring in, it's been rare that a kid's ride has been pulled prematurely since the policy change.
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Fathom the hypocricy of having to prove insurance, but not citizenship.
Edited by PSU Florida (02/04/10 02:12 PM)
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Carl Spackler
Flanker
Reged: 10/24/03
Posts: 3125
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I think your initial analysis is good, thank you for reporting this info. Obviously from your data the SEC offers many more recruits than the Big 10 and PSU is at the bottom of the Big 10 in offers. Frankly we do amazing well when considering this inequity.
Nothing the SEC does is apparently illegal or against the NCAA rules. So that begs the question: Are we ethically superior to the SEC and most of the Big 10 schools or are we morally superior while setting an artificial obstacle to our success or are we kidding ourselves while the other schools laugh at and ridicule us?
I think it is a combination of all three. We have the ethical and moral superiority of taking the highest of roads but also desire to win. The SEC, Vandy excluded, doesn't and ridicules us, the Big 10 and everyone else they think is victory challenged in the college football world.
The difficult part is that the SEC, in principle, adheres to the rules (yes, very fast and loosley) in general.
We adhere to the rules and add extra rules. Can we complain about others who fulfill the rules but use them to their advantage? They have no obligation to elevate to a higher or better or more ethical/moral set of rules.
I have this discussion with the Mrs. weekly. She is much like PSU. She is pristinely ethical and expects others to uphold her ethics. They do not, it is not required to hold a position and the supervisor, eg. the NCAA, plays favorites making it even harder to keep any semblance of a level playing field. I advise that she is expecting others to keep her elevated work habits. They don't have to nor are they required to but it frustrates the heck out of her and I can easily see why it does. Her shinning example of work ethic, production and behavior go unappreciated and unrewarded in general.
Are we at PSU any different in comparing the SEC or others to our high standards that are not mandatory or required? It begs frustration at a minimum.
Either we accept that we must lower our expectations when we handicap ourselves as a school and as a league in comparison and competition with others or we continue to expect to excel in spite of the handicap. It moves a difficult goal toward impossible.
I think we are operating on a faulty set of expectations. Expectations that we are on an equal competitive footing with the rest of the college football world. We are not, we start the race with a self induced handicap that we uphold and generally applaud.
If we miss on a recruiting evaluation we suffer with it for four years while the SEC eliminates the recruiting mistakes in one or two years at the outside.
In the business world this is a plan to fail if the goal is winning. If the goal is being ethical, moral and accountable to the recruits and their parents, we win hands down but MNC's and Big 10 championships are not handed out for the latter accomplishment and ESPN doesn't highlight the difference, ever.
Discussion
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Chuck Norris can lead a horse to water AND make it drink.
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RoarLions
Hall of Famer
Reged: 07/15/04
Posts: 9124
Loc: Selinsgrove, PA
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Ditto
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60% of the time it works every time...
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RhodyLion
Kicker
Reged: 01/24/08
Posts: 187
Loc: Rhode Island
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I think you each make very good points in regards to how PSU operates in relation to the SEC schools in general. I think the sentiment that Penn State shows commitment to the young men who accept their scholarship offers holds true. If not, the stories of high school prospects whose parents are incredible impressed by the school, program, and coaches would not cycle. It seems that most parents know that a scholarship offer from Penn State will likely enable their son to improve as a football player but also mature as a young man. As sappy and mawkish as that statement reads I also believe it to be true thereby creating the recruiting stories we've heard in recent years regarding Brod Green, Vidal Hazelton, Easley, etc...
I haven't heard the same kinds of stories as it applies to Florida, Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, LSU, etc.. Then again, we've had the same coach in place since Notre Dame was relevant and that kind of recruiting seemed widespread while each of those schools has seen multiple coaches in the last 10 years.
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If I'm only allowed to use words I understand then I have no choice but to be awfully quiet.
Edited by RhodyLion (02/04/10 02:48 PM)
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PennState03Chris
Running Back By Committee
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 3285
Loc: Princeton, NJ
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Delaware QB Commits to Kiffin
This is proof that recruiting (and Lane Kiffin) are flat out ridiculous. Although, I seem to remember Chris Leak committing (perhaps to Wake Forest) when he was in middle school.
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HAIL! to the Lion, loyal and true.
HAIL! Alma Mater, with your white and blue
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Nittanyfla
Hero
Reged: 11/22/03
Posts: 3825
Loc: Fla. & PA
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Let's face it, PState fans have been spoiled by the historical success of the program and expect that the current way of operating will produce outstanding teams every year.
At the same time, we believe that Joe and staff are doing it "the right way" and are more than satisfied that it is the way to operate.
I don't know a single individual who would like us to move to the "SEC" way of lowering standards in order to produce elite teams and multiple national championships. We are what we are and I don't see any changes on the horizon, even when Joe retires.
I sit in on alumni meetings in Florida, State College, Quarterback Club, Volleyball luncheons, etc. and the topic which always seems to draw the loudest and proudest support is the graduation rate at this university among the players.
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Blue&White
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/17/03
Posts: 17448
Loc: Right here
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This is meaningless as neither side is bound by this. Lets see if Kiffin honors this scholorship id the kid does not grow to be 6'5" or has a few set backs in his play.
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I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!
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RoarLions
Hall of Famer
Reged: 07/15/04
Posts: 9124
Loc: Selinsgrove, PA
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I thought they were doing a recreation of King Kong outside of the Kindergarten playground, but it turned out to be a Song Girl and Orgeron scouting LittleRoar.
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60% of the time it works every time...
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oldlioness
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/19/03
Posts: 9498
Loc: Huntington Beach, CA
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Quote:
This is meaningless as neither side is bound by this. Lets see if Kiffin honors this scholorship id the kid does not grow to be 6'5" or has a few set backs in his play.
More importantly, let's see if Kiffin is still at USC when the kid is eligible to sign his LOI! Speaking of which I see that Seantrel Henderson has not signed his LOI for USC, that he's delaying until after the NCAA sanctions come out this month. Smart kid! Hope he doesn't end up at tOSU after all.
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Pride, Respect, Class. That's what it means to be a Nittany Lion.....MRob
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Carl Spackler
Flanker
Reged: 10/24/03
Posts: 3125
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I think the issue is a discussion of the PSU self handicapping vs high expectations issue vs. comparisons with winning with the SEC, PSU and the Big 10 in general, not that PSU is going to make some major change in the way they operate. I doubt that anyone, particularly alumni would accept that change as you note from alumni meetings.
The issue is that either the NCAA should be lobbied to elevate the standards (particularly of signing excess recruits/cutting scholarships) to make college football a college sport and not a NFL farm system.
As an aside, we debate the fact that we play the game with one hand tied behind our back as compared to the SEC/Big 12, etc.
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Chuck Norris can lead a horse to water AND make it drink.
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Nittanyfla
Hero
Reged: 11/22/03
Posts: 3825
Loc: Fla. & PA
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Institute two steps, which, I know, Joe would like to see happen:
1. get rid of the face masks, and
2. go back to playing to way football.
This lessens the ability to use the mask as a weapon, and two will permit the ability of cutting back on scholarship numbers.
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gmay10
Offensive Coordinator
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 1145
Loc: Mt. Joy, Pa
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This crap that Kiffin just pulled really bothers me. He just showed how pathetic he really is. He also gave another 13 year old a scholly last year who is the brother of the safety from Tennessee, Berry. I think that since Sills verballed to the school, they should count this against his 2015 scholarships even if he goes to USC and does not play football. He might have a career ending injury when he is 15. This is appalling and completely unethical in my mind. I don't mind getting a verbal from a kid in 1grades 10-12, but I mind a 7th grader who verbals to a school. This kid is great news for the week but what happens to this kid 2 years from now when he is a fart in the wind. I hope everything works out for the kid. As far as Kiffin goes. I cannot stand the guy and I can't post what I wish to happen to him because it isn't nice.
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Nittanyfla
Hero
Reged: 11/22/03
Posts: 3825
Loc: Fla. & PA
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Go ahead and post your wishes. Add the same from me for Urban Meyer.
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psuro
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/27/03
Posts: 12122
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Urban Meyer just recruited a fetus.
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls....and tenement halls".
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gmay10
Offensive Coordinator
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 1145
Loc: Mt. Joy, Pa
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if the NCAA was really about integrity, they should say, "if you offer a scholarship to a student athlete in grades k-9, they will count against your scholarships if they attend the college." The one problem: The university could deny said student because the university would know that if said student went to their college it would count against their football program. As I read a few posts about how we recruit and I even made a comment that we should be a little more aggressive, I love how we do things. We may not always be in the National Championship hunt, but we do things the right way.
And what I want to say about Kiffin- I have a daughter now so I have to clean up my mouth.
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Nittanyfla
Hero
Reged: 11/22/03
Posts: 3825
Loc: Fla. & PA
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Guys, remember that bastion of academics in his players, Bob Knight, got a commitment from one Damon Bailey when the latter was in 8th grade.
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psuro
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/27/03
Posts: 12122
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And, as mentioned on ESPN, Chris Leak, who eventually went to Florida, was offered as an 8th grader by none other than current Colts Head Coach, and former PSU assistant Jim Caldwell, when Caldwell was HC at Wake Forest.
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls....and tenement halls".
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gmay10
Offensive Coordinator
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 1145
Loc: Mt. Joy, Pa
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I hear what your saying but it doesn't make it right. The NCAA should really look into this policy because it is terrible. Like I said, if the school offers a scholly, make it count as football scholly if the kid comes to USC but doesn't play football in 2015. What happens if this kid blows out his arm and can never play again. I think USC should have to use a scholly if the kid still comes to their college.
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psuro
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/27/03
Posts: 12122
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Quote:
The NCAA should really look into this policy because it is terrible. Like I said, if the school offers a scholly, make it count as football scholly if the kid comes to USC but doesn't play football in 2015. What happens if this kid blows out his arm and can never play again. I think USC should have to use a scholly if the kid still comes to their college.
Schools offer lots of scholarships every year. I don't think there are any limits to the number of scholarships that are offered, or when they are offered. The NCAA only sets rules on how many kids can accept, when coaches are allowed to contact the kid, and when written offers can be proferred - and this is in their junior year of HS I believe.
What Kiffen - and Caldwell and Knight - did, was basically say "Hey, you are good. We would be happy to have you be a part of our program in the future"....that's it. No written offer, no committment from either side.
You don't think Joe ever saw a young kid and say "Hey, you are good, we would be happy to have you be a part of our program in the future"....well, he did to an eigth grader - a kid named Derrick Williams. Joe kept tabs on him throughout high school and when he could formally offer a scholarship - he did.
Making USC lose a scholarship simply for a verbal discussion like this is simply ludicrous. The NCAA would lose even more credibility than they already have if they were to pull a stunt like that.
If you want to be angry at anyone - be angry at the guy who is this kid's personal coach...he is doing this for his benefit as much as anyone else's.
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls....and tenement halls".
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gmay10
Offensive Coordinator
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 1145
Loc: Mt. Joy, Pa
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13 year old commits
It seems to me that a 13 just committed to USC for 2015. I didn't read anywhere where Lane said, "hey, nice arm. How do you feel about USC?"
And I know that schools offer a ton of scholarships every year. How many of those go to 13 year olds? I have zero problem with a kid in 10,11, or 12th grade committing to a university. My problem is a 13 committing to a university. Who is not to say that this kid is not Gary Coleman or Webster in disguise? What if he stops growing or loses motivation? I think their should be some sort of consequences for offering a 13 year old a scholarship. I would say, if you offer a 13 year old a scholarship, they will count toward your football scholarships if they come to your school even if they don't play football. This is a very slippery slope in my eyes.
BTW- my daughter came out and was 21 inches long. The kicker is that she has a LONG torso and even longer fingers. I contacted Texas and she committed by saying- googgogaagagagagga. Texas accepted her commitment and she will be attending Austin in 2028.
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psuro
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/27/03
Posts: 12122
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Yeah, it's kinda not the same as as a high school junior saying "I will committ"....but if you want to believe it is, then you go ahead.
And the comment about USC being forced to count this against their class in 2015 is simply silly.
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls....and tenement halls".
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gmay10
Offensive Coordinator
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 1145
Loc: Mt. Joy, Pa
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I am not sure why it is silly. I personally feel it is unethical to recruit a 13 year old kid. Therefore, a college wants to offer a 13 year old kid a scholarship then they should have to pay up once said kid goes to college if they enroll at that same college. I think it should be downright wrong to offer a 13 year old a scholarship for athletics if they are in 9th grade or below. This is a life changing event for the family and a fart int he wind to the university. I think the NCAA should protect the youth and not promote commitments from a 13 year old.
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psuro
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/27/03
Posts: 12122
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And if the kid was 15, or 16, should they have the same responsibility?
The NCAA does not have any obligation to protect a kid before that kid enters high school. None.
YOU personally feet its unethical to recruit a kid. But, based on the examples that have been presented, clearly there are coaches - successful ones at that - that don't feel that way. And it's their livliehood to get the best talent.
What specifically makes it unethical? If it wasn't football, if it was ice skating, or gymnastics, where young kids get recruited for Olympic teams all the time, would it be as serious?
Your issue is that it was Lane Kiffen and it was USC. If it was Joe, would you say the same thing? No.
The family, the kid, and the University have no binding obligation to honor this. The kid could say - I changed my mind, and walk away. Terrelle Pryor "committed" to Pitt to play basketbaall his sophomore year....yet he is not at Pitt playing basketball, is he?
It's simply not that big of a deal - except for the 13 year old kid who is excited to talk to Coach Kiffen.
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls....and tenement halls".
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Phil
Lion Grand Poohbah
Reged: 07/06/06
Posts: 2011
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Where to start???
I find your line drawing interesting. Why is it OK under the Gmay rules to recruit and receive a commitment from a 10th grader but not a ninth grader? Why not say it's only OK to recruit juniors - or even seniors?
What if this 13 year-old kid were not only a football prodigy but also an academic prodigy and was already a high school junior? OK to recruit him then? Is it the age or class that bothers you?
You express concern about protecting the kid and why the NCAA doesn't provide protection. Frankly, I don't see how this harms him anymore than the recruiting process generally could harm impressionable young kids. Maybe it helps him by shielding him from the rigors of recruiting wars a few years down the road.
Let's accept, for argument's sake, that the kid needs to be protected. Isn't that the parents' job (as well as his personal coach)? This Dad sounds like he could be a clone of Todd Marinovich's father.
In addition, your proposed penalty, I have to agree with psuro, is silly. This is apparently, to date, a once in a lifetime situation. I don't see this opening the door to widespread recruiting of 13 year olds. But if I'm a coach and you're gonna penalize me for recruiting a young kid by charging me with a scholarship IF the kid doesn't come to play football for me BUT still enrolls at my school - well how often is that gonna happen - I'll take my chances.
Finally, what sport does your daughter intend to play? Sounds like a potential volleyball player. Maybe you should talk to Russ Rose before she commits to Texas.
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gmay10
Offensive Coordinator
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 1145
Loc: Mt. Joy, Pa
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Quote:
The NCAA does not have any obligation to protect a kid before that kid enters high school. None.
The NCAA protest kids already by having period of time when coaches cannot contact the student athlete.
Quote:
YOU personally feet its unethical to recruit a kid. But, based on the examples that have been presented, clearly there are coaches - successful ones at that - that don't feel that way. And it's their livliehood to get the best talent.
What specifically makes it unethical? If it wasn't football, if it was ice skating, or gymnastics, where young kids get recruited for Olympic teams all the time, would it be as serious?
Your issue is that it was Lane Kiffen and it was USC. If it was Joe, would you say the same thing? No.
I would be against it if it were JoePa. I am guessing JoePa is against this type of recruiting too but I am not 100% sure of this. To me, coaches should not be able to recruit kids until they are in the 10th grade. It is just my opinion.
Quote:
The family, the kid, and the University have no binding obligation to honor this. The kid could say - I changed my mind, and walk away. Terrelle Pryor "committed" to Pitt to play basketbaall his sophomore year....yet he is not at Pitt playing basketball, is he?
If the kid changes his mind, then it is not a problem. But if the kid does not become 6'5" and doesn't make the team in 2015. I think USC should still be charged for that scholarship.
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Blue&White
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/17/03
Posts: 17448
Loc: Right here
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I'm with Ro and Phil on this - I don't get why this is a big deal at all. The offer is not binding on anyone, it's a good gimmick to get in with a kid early - especially one that is 3,000 miles away, and I don't see how this kid is any more exploited than any other potential recruit is exploited.
I think this was a smart thing to do by Kiffin and really don't get the sense or moral outrage. So he offered a kid in middle school. So what? Why is this a problem?
And, if he doesn't play football for USC, what are the odds that he's going to go across the country to just go to school there? What are the odds that USC is going to even accept him if they know he will cost them an athletic scholarship. The only one who gets potentially punished here is the kid.
Make that 3 votes for "silly".
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I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!
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psuro
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/27/03
Posts: 12122
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Quote:
The NCAA protest kids already by having period of time when coaches cannot contact the student athlete.
That timeframe is to reign in the coaches, not the student athlete. You neglected to include that the student athlete could initiate the contact if he/she chooses to.
Quote:
But if the kid does not become 6'5" and doesn't make the team in 2015. I think USC should still be charged for that scholarship
How can they charge USC for that scholarship? He has not signed anything. Furthermore, the recruiting rules state that a scholarship is only good after the kid signs a written offer, or is enrolled in classes. If the kid only grows to 6'2", does not sign a LOI, and does not enroll in classes, then you would say that USC should lose a scholarship? C'mon, man!
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls....and tenement halls".
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gmay10
Offensive Coordinator
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 1145
Loc: Mt. Joy, Pa
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I just think it is unethical to have a 13 year old commit to a college program. It is just my opinion. Let the kid turn into Marinovich- that dude has been spectacular! Lets see how this kid turns out. I hope him all the best. Again, I think it is a slippery slope having 13 year old kids commit to a college football program.
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Blue&White
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/17/03
Posts: 17448
Loc: Right here
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A slippery slope to what, though? 12 year old kids committing? 10 year old kids committing?
What do you think is going to happen as a result of this? I'm serious here - what is the unethical immoral issue you feel so strongly about?
And, you do realize that neither side is bound by this, right? USC can rescind and if tops at at 6'0" they probably will. Conversely, USC can go into some kind of huge slump between now and his senior year and he may decide to go elsewhere on his own.
If you feel this is unethical or immoral then that is how you feel and it's not our place to tell you you're feelings are wrong, but I really don't see what the concern is or what this slippery slope is leading to.
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I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!
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gmay10
Offensive Coordinator
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 1145
Loc: Mt. Joy, Pa
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I know that USC can rescind on this and I guess that is the other point. I don't think you should offer a 13 year kid the world and then if he doesn't hit his mark- sorry, we don't want you now because you suck. I could completely understand if the boy was going to get paid for this. We talk on here all the time about doing things the right way and I see this as doing things the wrong way. This is a personal preference. I don't really have any data or gigantic reasons to back my stance- I just think it is wrong. Too many kids get pushed into things all the time because their parents want it for them. I just hope his parents are grounded and he takes care of his business. Believe me, I want nothing more than this kid to succeed.
In terms of a slippery slope- next thing you know you got kids going to state all star teams at age 12 with scouts at them. We will be rating 13 year olds.
But hey, what do I know. I just think the NCAA should step in and kabosh 13 year olds from committing. Again, no gigantic reason- just my opinion. Let the kid be a kid.
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Joepa Turtle
Lion Grand Poohbah
Reged: 09/21/06
Posts: 2191
Loc: Boston, MA USA
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Perhaps this was discussed on another thread, not sure. Anyone know why Khairi Fortt is wearing a Georgia tee shirt in this photo? Did we steal him away? He's from Stamford CT so it can't be his hometown favorite.
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The trouble is not that people know too little, but that they know so many things that ain't so. -MT
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PennState03Chris
Running Back By Committee
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 3285
Loc: Princeton, NJ
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He attended a camp at Georgia. They probably handed out gear to everyone, and thus the reason for the photo shoot. He was ours all along.
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HAIL! to the Lion, loyal and true.
HAIL! Alma Mater, with your white and blue
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BlueState
Guard
Reged: 01/17/09
Posts: 133
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Well, there was that story that Fortt was heavily interested in them, and perhaps even leaning to the Dawgs. However, his peer-chaperons just ditched him at one point to go to a party or something, and he realized the culture at PSU was just much better.
Its obviously a moot point, but not so sure "he was ours all along". I think it was close and quality of our players won him over.
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PennState03Chris
Running Back By Committee
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 3285
Loc: Princeton, NJ
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The story about the UGA players ditching him is 100% true.
However, Khairi was always a Penn Stater. If it had been up to him, he would have verballed, along with Slias, in May. The issue with Khairi was his father, who... likes to feel important. He didn't want his son to lack attention throughout the summer, and pushed him to continue to visit and not commit. Along with trying to break into the entertainment business, Mr. Fortt is also trying to break into the recruiting game in CT. re: The CT recruiting game, it was in the best interests of Mr. Fortt to have Khairi's name floating around for as long as possible. It wasn't really a surprise that the staff was getting fed up with the thing dragging out, and when they told Khairi to "take it or leave it," that he finally committed.
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HAIL! to the Lion, loyal and true.
HAIL! Alma Mater, with your white and blue
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appoo
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 15499
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FWIW - The NCAA has decided to slap the same limits they do on HC, to HC in waiting - such as Will Muschamp.
13.1.2.6 Head Coach Restrictions -- Bowl Subdivision Football.
13.1.2.6.1 Assistant Coach Publicly Designated as Institution's Next Head Coach.
An institution's assistant coach who has been publicly designated by the institution to become its next head coach shall be subject to the recruiting restrictions applicable to the institution's head coach.
Definitely a good thing that Bradley doesn't have that tag.
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psuro
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/27/03
Posts: 12122
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Is this a situation where PSU got lucky, or did Joe know something like this would happen?
Where did you get this info, by the way? Was it announced on the NCAA Website?
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls....and tenement halls".
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appoo
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 15499
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Rivals Big board.
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appoo
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 15499
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Texas has, last I checked, 12 committements...in one day. All from their Texas Junior Day weekend. There is no other program in sports quite like Texas football.
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oldlioness
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/19/03
Posts: 9498
Loc: Huntington Beach, CA
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that Sharrif Floyd and Dominique Easley feel more comfortable hanging with! 
Yeah, I know we have had our own issues, but we get rid of them instead of giving them a seat on the bench for a quarter.
LSUfreek weighs in on the subject.
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Pride, Respect, Class. That's what it means to be a Nittany Lion.....MRob
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Underlion
Split End
Reged: 10/28/03
Posts: 493
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And we let some 4* players go in the recruiting process because the 'background check' has a red flag or three. Given the same information some other schools, not to be named, take the chance. Because they have taken the chance there is later a pressure to ignore the problem?
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RoarLions
Hall of Famer
Reged: 07/15/04
Posts: 9124
Loc: Selinsgrove, PA
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I know this is a kind of a normal occurance for high school seniors, but YR just got a letter from Buddy Teevens who was a coach for Florida, Stanford, Tulane and a couple others and is now the coach for Dartmouth. He wants YR to consider Dartmouth.
I thought that was pretty **** cool. And considering the starting QB from last year is headed to Harvard, maybe Selinsgrove will become an Ivy League pipeline!
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60% of the time it works every time...
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psuro
Hall of Famer
Reged: 10/27/03
Posts: 12122
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I would hold out for Brown. Dartmouth is the Pitt of the Ivy League.
Besides, if he goes to Brown, there is a chance he could end up working someplace for a long time, and become infamous for his work....like another Brown alumni......
...named Chris Berman.
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls....and tenement halls".
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RoarLions
Hall of Famer
Reged: 07/15/04
Posts: 9124
Loc: Selinsgrove, PA
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Leather. You're with me...
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60% of the time it works every time...
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Carl Spackler
Flanker
Reged: 10/24/03
Posts: 3125
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I think the whole deal is pretty cool and I'm sure you are very proud of Young Roar. Keep us informed, you can be an inside source of all the dirt involved in recruiting. 
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Chuck Norris can lead a horse to water AND make it drink.
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